Teaching as a woman and a man
Transgender in professional life: Kathrin aka Martin Föhse
What is it like to work in the academic world as a woman or as a man? Law scholar Martin Föhse is familiar with both gender roles: He lived as a woman for ten years, during which time he completed his doctorate and taught. He has been living as a man again for several years now.
Martin Föhse: It feels different whether you’re on the road as a woman or as a man. In particular, the experiences I have had in social interaction are different. Since I didn’t act as a transwoman, but simply as a woman, I probably experienced being a woman and the difference from being a man quite authentically. I was treated very differently as a woman than as a man in my day-to-day life. This is very formative. As I didn’t want to stand out, I had to adapt my behavior to what was expected of me as a woman. Which brings us to the big question: To what extent is gender in the broader sense shaped by biology and to what extent is it shaped by society and its expectations, which also have a significant impact on personality development through the social environment and partly deep-seated habits and role models? I guess it’s a mixture of the two.
How do the different gender roles in the academic world feel?Of course, I cannot draw a direct comparison. I don’t know how I would have experienced the same events as a man when I was a woman at the University of St. Gallen (HSG). It is always just a comparison over time, with different encounters and in different contexts. But I still believe that there are significant differences.
Tell us about the time when you were a woman.I first worked at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy, and then as a legal services manager for five years. During this time, I wrote my dissertation at the University of Bern, my alma mater, while working. In 2016, I became Assistant Professor of Constitutional and Administrative Law, specializing in energy law at HSG.
At the time, we were three female and three male assistant professors, who took up five-year assistant professorships more or less at the same time. All without a tenure track, i.e. without a guarantee of permanent employment under probation. This was also the reason why I kept a foot in the law profession and continued to practice as a lawyer in parallel to my teaching and research.
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Women in Science
This article first appeared in uniFOKUS, the University of Bern print magazine. Four times a year, uniFOKUS focuses on one specialist area from different points of view. Current focus topic: Women in Science
Subscribe to uniFOKUS magazineIn the Law School – the name of the Faculty of Law at HSG – women were and still are underrepresented at the level of full professorships. The HSG was therefore under some pressure to appoint women. I remember the appointment of a man which caused great controversy in the press because a woman wasn’t chosen.
In my opinion, being a woman in an academic environment was more of a help than a hindrance in the environment in which I was working.
To what extent was it different when you were standing in front of students as a woman and not as a man?In many cases, there was no difference. In particular, the students participated equally well and I did not have the impression that I was shown less or more respect in one case or the other. During class, I was immersed in the material anyway, so I didn’t really have the time to think about anything else.
I felt more observed as a woman in terms of my appearance than as a man. You’re on display in front of students. Especially the women in the audience can be relentless if you commit a stylistic faux pas. As a result, I felt quite a bit under pressure when it came to what I was wearing and my appearance. – Actually as I said this, I noticed how cliché it sounds, but that’s the way it was. As a man, I was and still am much more relaxed in this respect.
What was your experience of being a woman in a non-academic professional environment?First of all: Again, these are my personal impressions – you have to be careful with generalizations.
As a woman, I worked in an industry dominated by men, the energy sector. As a woman, as well as a lawyer and professor, I stood out from the crowd. I received requests for board positions, supervisory boards and management positions for which I would hardly have received any offers back then as a man of the same age. Headhunters contacted me more often in my years as a woman than they did afterwards – despite the fact that I had the same CV and qualifications. In my experience, being a woman had both advantages and disadvantages.
Can you tell us about an experience that illustrates the advantage of being a woman?Yes, but the other way round: Being turned down for an exciting position was particularly painful for me. It came after I had announced that I would reappear as a man in a few months. I will never forget what they said on the phone: “Everything was fine, but then you’ll be a man again. We need a woman.”
The statement was revealing. “Being a woman” turned out to be a purely formal criterion, “just to tick the box”. It was not about diversity or about bringing in different life experiences, a different view of things to a committee. I would have been able to provide that. It was obviously just about meeting a quota. I can imagine that this attitude is not an isolated case.
So you felt like a “quota woman”?This thought actually occurred to me sometimes. I was accused of that once, although in the nicest possible way, by a colleague, namely when I was promoted to section head at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy after just over a year. That hurt me a lot at first. Afterwards, I just said to myself, what the hell? I had been given a chance to prove myself, and I was determined to seize that opportunity.
Have you experienced any other differences as a woman in your professional life?As a woman, I often had the impression that I was underestimated. For example, a new colleague asked me if I worked in the secretary’s office. At that time, I was already in charge of a legal department. I also remember a discussion where the other person almost only looked at the male colleague sitting next to me and ignored me at first. When he realized that I was the boss, he was visibly embarrassed.
On another occasion, someone – not a lawyer – wanted to discuss the interpretation of a legal text with me and was very persistent. When another colleague pointed out to him that I had actually written the law, he became very quiet.
“In my experience, being direct as a woman was much trickier, especially with men.”
Martin Föhse
As a woman, it was easier to have conversations with higher-ranking men. Interestingly, however, there was less talk about business or political issues. It was more about personal things. As a man, I have never experienced that. In my view, however, this has not helped me progress professionally.
Conversely, I had the impression that acquiring new clients was easier for me as a man. This is where I might have had an advantage as a man. But that’s just a subjective impression, I can’t say clearly why it felt that way to me.
It is irritating how much clichés hold up.One of my first appearances as a woman in front of a larger audience was a special experience. It was a presentation at an association from the energy sector. Almost all older men, on average probably in their mid-50s. At first, I felt an icy wind blowing towards me on stage. After the lecture, however, I was overwhelmed with exuberant praise. Both were inappropriate. That was the moment I learned that it can also be useful to be underestimated. You can use this to your advantage.
How have you experienced forms of discrimination as a woman?There were moments when I felt disadvantaged as a woman. Being underestimated can put a lot of strain on you. I can well imagine that this is why women’s careers don’t progress. Sometimes I would be amused, for example when my counterpart fell into “man-plaining” (a term for a man assuming that he knows more about the subject of conversation than the – usually female – counterpart) or bragged to me about his merits. A completely new experience for me. Over time, however, this really started to get on my nerves.
But there were also more explicit episodes: At a social event, I once had to endure a minor assault by a politician. That was just too much. In a job interview, I was also asked about what form my family planning took.
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As a woman, I was also confronted with other social expectations. Sometimes they were very subtle, sometimes quite blunt. For example, I felt like I had to constantly apologize for not having children. As a man, that’s not an issue.
What gender were you socialized as?As a man. I grew up in the countryside in the 1980s as a boy and it was only when I was 30 that I decided to align my gender.
At that age, I probably had more of a masculine disposition as a woman. That’s why I would say that as a woman I was perhaps unusually direct and demanding. I also had to make sure that I get the label “tough” and not “abrasive”. However, I was often treading a fine line. In my experience, being direct as a woman was much trickier, especially with men.
What advice would you give to young people who have questions similar to yours about their biological gender?It is important that those affected seek professional support. I am concerned about the increasing numbers of young people identifying as transgender. In the case of children and adolescents in particular, nothing should be rushed into and time should be taken to clarify things. When it comes to supporting minors, however, a change of perspective is required. In public discourse, I often come across the view that natural biological development should not be interfered with at an early stage. It’s precisely this attitude that is a problem. It overlooks the fact that it is precisely this natural development during puberty that also leads to irreversible consequences for “real” transgender people. This was the case for me, for example, and is one of the main reasons why I have reappeared as a man on the outside. When used correctly, puberty blockers are therefore a blessing. However, their use requires professional support and careful investigation of the motifs.
Apart from that: Be self-critical, but also self-confident – and go your own way.
About the person
Martin Föhse
holds a doctorate in law and is an attorney-at-law. He studied at the University of Bern and lived for ten years as Kathrin Föhse. Kathrin Föhse initially worked at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy (SFOE), including five years as a legal services manager. She then moved to the University of St. Gallen (HSG), where she was Assistant Professor of Constitutional and Administrative Law, specializing in energy law. At the same time, she practiced as a lawyer until 2024. Martin Föhse is now Vice Director of the Federal Office of Police fedpol. He holds a teaching position in energy law at the University of Bern.
